Unlock the Power of Kindness in Leadership with Christy Pretzinger | Ep #109

Wendy: Welcome to Building Better Managers. I am your host, Wendy Hanson, and I am delighted to have you with me today to learn from some wonderful guests who are going to share their information and their brilliance and their experiences around management and leadership and building great teams in organizations. I am also the co-founder of New Level Work, so check us out. Newlevelwork.com. thanks for tuning in.

Welcome, everybody. It is such a delight to have you here today. I just love being able to talk to the world and to speak about subjects that I have to say that I am really passionate about, and kindness is one of them. As chief of culture at new level work, kindness in the workplace is so important, and I'm so lucky to have an expert here on kindness today. And I will introduce her in a moment. And we all need to really think about what kind of culture we want to have in our companies and how are we going to support people in a good way. So we're going to talk about some of that today, how kindness shows up. And in our culture, it's best to be able to help people see the best version of themselves and our productivity and our business success are the beneficiaries. If people are happy at work and they're kind to each other, productivity is going to be better. So this is just not a nice to have. This is really a must have. And we want people to be happy at work. And at new level work, we provide coaching, professional development for managers, and an AI series of products that will support us in coaching. We want to make coaching accessible for so many people. And using AI to augment that is really going to be a game changer. And I know a lot of companies are doing it right now, but we're doing it really well and we're going to help more people have access to coaching because we started really wanting to help people that were middle managers who weren't getting the love that senior level people would do. Now, at new level work, we work with everybody, but we really want to make sure that people that traditionally maybe couldn't have coaching because for economic reasons, now can have it. So, stay tuned cause you're gonna see more about that. So please check out newlevelwork.com and see if we can partner on this effort. So I am delighted to introduce my guest now, Christy Pretzinger. And she is a high energy entrepreneur. I knew that when we did our pre podcast in the beginning, and I knew she would be a delight to be able to have on this podcast. She's passionate about building environments where people can thrive. Her organization, WG Content, has transformed the landscape of healthcare content creation. Being among the first to specialize in healthcare content, she grew up with the industry and WG content is now an industry leading agency that delivers superior content strategy and creation to healthcare brands across the country. And healthcare is certainly an area that we all need to focus on now. It is so important. And Christy says, while I am exceedingly proud of the work we do, the myriad of services we provide, and the impressive client list, my passion and focus is on ensuring that as we grow, our people focused culture continues to be the core of our organization. And she's going to share her passion for creating an environment where people can thrive with other leaders and to that end, be able to really make things happen. She's the author of an upcoming book, your cultural balance sheet. Ooh, I love that. Being a chief of culture strategies for creating environments that people can thrive. So welcome, Christy. It's so good to have you here.
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Christy: Thank you so much for having me, Wendy. I'm looking forward to our conversation.
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Wendy: Yes, yes. So why has kindness been your driver? It's a really important topic, but how did that come up for you to become the thing that really moves you forward?
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Christy: That's a really great question. And one time someone asked me if I had worked for unkind people, and I hadn't thought about that. And so I thought about it and I was like, no, actually, I did not work for unkind people. But the environments in which they worked, the structures within which they worked, did not foster kindness. And I realized. I only realized that when someone asked me that question there. You know, sometimes structures are such that they're so rigid or there are particular rules that really are not people focused and that probably most people don't really like enforcing or following, but it is something that grew up somewhere, somebody had an idea and they do that, and then it's really nothing. Anything that enables kindness.
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Wendy: M. Yeah. And sometimes it's like a fish in water. You don't see it if you're in that environment. And that's a real problem. Yeah.
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Christy: Yep, absolutely.
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Wendy: I heard a speaker last week, Leora Russi, who is amazing, and he said, what are the two worst words you can use in customer support or experience? What? Our policy.
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Christy: Oh, yeah.
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Wendy: When you start a sentence with our policy, it says, like, I'm not going to treat you as a h an. You know, we have a policy, and I thought nobody could guess. There were a lot of people in the audience listening, and nobody could figure out those two words. And then when he said it was like, wow, that makes a lot of sense. Yes.
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Christy: Yes, it does.
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Wendy: That's good. Way to turn people off. Now, tell me about your perspective on the role self-awareness plays in leadership.
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Christy: I think it really all begins with self-awareness the more you know about yourself, the better you can learn the effect that you have on other people, especially as a leader of any kind, whether it's a team or a company or, you know, you're leading someone and understanding that the things that you do, the behaviors that you have have effects on your environment and the people around you. And, you know, we're all grown up, and it's important to have awareness of both the good and the bad that we all have, and then being able to moderate your behavior, moderate yourself accordingly to have the best effect that you can have, particularly as a leader of people.
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Wendy: And how does that self-awareness fit in with the bigger picture of kindness?
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Christy: Well, I think that we use a tool in our organization called the enneagram, which you may or may not be familiar with, and I really enjoyed that tool for us because it focuses on motivation for behavior, not just behavior. So when I first learned about that it really showed me how to. What's the word that I like to use? How to, like, modify them. The rougher edges of my behavior and understanding my motivation for that. And so what using that in the organization, because they are, you know, technically only nine types, it's not. It's accessible to people. You can read about the other ones so that your coworkers, you can have a general idea of why they behave the way they do, not just their behavior, but why, which lays the groundwork for empathy. And that becomes a bigger picture in terms of, you know, empathy and kindness. Similarities, you know, they're not the same, but the. You certainly, if you're empathetic, it implies that you're kind, right? And if you're kind, generally speaking, there's an element of empathy there. And so that has played a very large role throughout our organization and having that tool that allows you to learn about yourself and then learn about others sets. That sets the tone for that. So then it allows you, and you see someone behave in a way that seems annoying to you. If you understand their why, it just kind of softens it a little bit. And you can be kinder and have a little more grace about the way someone behaves, as well as for yourself, too. I think it starts with you recognizing why you do something that might be found to be irritating by other people and giving yourself a little grace around that, being like, oh, yeah, but I can control that because I'm grown up and I can actually modify that behavior.
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Wendy: Yes, we hope there are more grownups out there that are able to do that. Yes. Yes. Can you just say a little bit more about the enneagram for people that this might be totally foreign to, just so that they get the picture?
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Christy: The enneagram is as I said, a personality typing system it focuses on the motives for your behavior, why you do something, as opposed to, like, Myers Briggs or dis. There's obviously a lot of personality typing, but in my experience, and I do not know all of them, but they focus on behaviors rather than the whys. This is really oversimplified, but there are nine types of personality types within the enneagram. The one isn't better than the nine or vice versa. They're inbred. And you learn that there are three heart types, three head types, and three body types. And then you learn how that actually works. I happen to be a head type. And until I started doing this work, I literally lived from the chin up, the neck up. I did nothing. I didn't access my feelings in my body. I wasn't even aware of them. But as Brene Brown says, the body keeps score and the body always wins. So you might as well learn how to get in there and acknowledge what's happening, that tool gave me access to that, something I had never really thought about before. Also in using it, as I said, you can learn about others behaviors. Again, because I'm a head type I am someone who processes very quickly. That doesn't mean that I'm smarter. It just means I process more quickly. Whereas I. I have several people on my team that are body types. And body types, if you think about someone who's a little more grounded and they take longer to process, I used to jokingly say I could ask my accountant a question and then read my entire newsfeed to give her time to come back with the answer, because she's very thoughtful and she needs that space without me being like, come on, come on, come on. And allowing her the time, because I want to hear what she has to say, and I want to make sure that she has the time to process and give it the thought that she wants to so she can answer me in a meaningful way. So that's just a little bit of a very, very top line look at it good.
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Wendy: Well, that will help anybody who's listening, who just hasn't heard of it before. Yeah, that's great. How do you demonstrate vulnerability as a leader? You know, you mentioned Brene Brown, the queen of vulnerability how do you demonstrate vulnerability?
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Christy: Well, it's interesting, I was just talking about this earlier today that before I watched her TED talk probably about 20 times in 2010, I would have gone to my grave insisting that vulnerability was weakness. So that was something that I started studying her, and I started learning about it and learning how to lead with vulnerability. And in my own experience, what I have to be willing to do and a great way to do it a very simple tool, is acknowledging that you don't have all the answers. You do not have all the answers. That's also sometimes called intellectual ability, and I really like that term, too, is understanding that when you're speaking to someone else, you have something in your head. I always think to myself, I already know what I know. I don't know what you know. And so I think my job as a leader is to come up with the right questions. I don't have to have the answers. That's why I have a team, is because they might have the right answers. And so in my own experience in my organization, by being willing to show that I might be wrong, and, like, sometimes I'll say something in a meeting, be like, I could be. I'm sitting in such a different seat than you, so I could be completely wrong about this. I have a different perspective. So blah, blah, blah. This is what I think. Am I correct in thinking that? So I invite them to say close but not quite, or, you know, that's not really actually happening. I'm like, okay, well, good. Tell me about it, so that I can be correct about it. And that's been really. I think it's just really helpful. It's sort of almost kind of using that yoga beginner's mind also, you know, where you just kind of are always looking for the answers and not acting that you already know something. And that, for me especially as a leader, demonstrates vulnerability.
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Wendy: Yeah. And I love how you point out it depends on where you're sitting in an organization, what you know. Yes. And you could be the leader of that organization, but you're not sitting in the seats that other people are in, so they know different things.
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Christy: Absolutely.
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Wendy: And why are leaders so afraid of being vulnerable? You know, it's like, I'm worried to be vulnerable because people will think I'm weak. You know, where does that come from.
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Christy: I think it's human nature, Wendy, don't you? Nobody ever wants to show a weakness. I mean, some of us learned when we were younger that if you show someone a weakness, they will use it against you. I grew up somehow in a lot of different ways believing that and I had to really work through that. So what I ended up teaching my son was that when we all have bruises and if someone lets you see their bruise, we don't kick people in their bruises. We just don't do that. But I think that in the world in which we live in this very fast paced, winning environment, people think that you have to look like a winner, that you do everything right and, you know, everything. Which actually, I think personally, in my own opinion, shows the weakness of someone. A real inability to be open, you know, to have. Again, to quote Brene, we're just gonna quote her all day, but to have the soft heart and the strong back, you know, people don't want to do that. And I feel very strongly that particularly, although I do hope this is changing. I see it a lot with younger people. But that the way we socialize men in this country encourages that kind of that strength behavior, encouraging people not to show your softness. The things that somebody decided are called soft skills like empathy and kindness and vulnerability, all of which are hard but those soft skills are not really taught to boys when they're after a certain age. And I think that's a real shame because it's a thread of our humanity that connects us to people. And if you don't access those, you really, really limit your experience of the world and of other people. But that's where we are.
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Wendy: Yeah. And how does vulnerability relate to kindness? Because we're looking at this whole kindness sphere. Where do they fit together?

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Christy: You know, I just was sharing something this morning about that. And as a leader, it was something about being vulnerable. And I was saying that one time we were doing an exercise. We were doing a leadership team lunch and learn around the enneagram and some different feedback tools we were using. So one of my employees, I'm the CEO and the owner and although we really. I've known her for ten years, we're friends, but I still could fire her. I never would. But I know that's always in the back of their minds. And in this situation, she gave me feedback, telling me that sometimes because I process very quickly, and she does too, actually. But when I get going too fast that I make her feel stupid. I was devastated because she's so bright, that was the last thing I would ever think of her being as stupid, in no way, shape, or form. But I was really. I was pleased that she was willing to say something difficult to her boss, and also that she was willing to be vulnerable with me. And I think that the reason she could be vulnerable with me is because I've demonstrated that to her.

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Wendy: I.

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Christy: And so she knew I wasn't going to fire her. I wasn't going to get mad at her. I wasn't going to do anything like that except say, thank you for sharing that, because now I know how to actually modify that behavior so that I can. I really have learned over time, and that was several years ago to watch myself in a meeting, and I can tell if I start getting. If I start talking too quickly, if I start saying too much that I can make other people feel diminished. And that is never my intention.

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Wendy: Yeah, yeah. Our intent is not always what the impact is. Right?

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Christy: That's a very, very apt statement, Wendy.

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Wendy: Well, yes, yes. And we need to always be aware of that. Yes and I love that example that you give, because it's. It's wonderful to be able to have somebody be able to tell you when you've really kind of hurt their soul. Because we don't do that enough, because we're afraid to. Yeah. And that creates more kindness in an organization when people do that.

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Christy: Absolutely. And for her to be able to say that to me and for me to receive it, and like I said, that helps me as a leader. You know, I mean, that I can't be a better leader if people aren't willing to, you know, tell me, hey, you know, this had this effect on me, so I have to be open and seek that kind of feedback.

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Wendy: Yeah. And one of the things that you say is that trust is a long game.

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Christy: Yeah.

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Wendy: What does that mean? Can you elaborate on that?

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Christy: Yeah, I frequently say that many of these things, but trust requires,, both attention and intention. You can't have one without the other, or it will fall apart. And so when, for example, the young woman I was just telling you about. Young woman, she's not that much younger than me, but the woman when I hired her, she came on because she knew two of my other employees. They had worked together at a different organization, and she had kind of been burned at a smaller business, smaller company. So she was really, really wary of joining another small business compared to a large corporation. And so she came on because she trusted these two other people, but she didn't really necessarily believe me that I actually say what I mean and mean what I say, that I do put people first, that I do genuinely love my employees. And I use that word intentionally because one definition of love is wishing the well-being of someone else, and I definitely wish the wellbeing of all of my employees so it's a long game, and you can blow it very quickly, though. So over time. She's been an employee for ten years in February. And like, for example, in that example, she's the same person that told me that I made her feel stupid. If I would have been harsh about that or pushed back instead of listening and receiving it, the trust would have been gone like that. But the trust is so important to me that I really do constantly pay attention to that and how quickly you can just blow that by just one small action and you can blow ten years of goodwill.

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Wendy: Yeah. And it takes a long time to get trust back.

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Christy: Oh, even harder than getting it the first time.

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Wendy: Right.

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Christy: People now, they're like, well, you burned me once, you know.

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Wendy: Yeah. And it's another challenging part of human nature is then you look for the places where trust isn't showing up and you look for evidence to say, m. Yeah, I can't trust them. Here it is again. Even when that might not be a big thing.

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Christy: Yes.

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Wendy: Wow and what are some of the most important lessons that you have learned in building your business? You know, because business owners have a big responsibility, and I really get that you feel that, you know, you feel it for your people, and then I want you to tell you a little bit about the work that you do afterwards, too. But you know, what, what's the most important lesson as a business owner that you have learned?

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Christy: Yeah, I've been doing this for so long that I often am, like, I've forgotten more than I, you know, like, yeah. How you learn things over years and then they just become part of your DNA and you don't really know where you learned them. But I will say a lesson that has stayed with me and that I frequently share because it was very impactful to me and it seems to be impactful to those I share it with. I had a coach once, many years ago long, long time ago, and she said to me, your business is you, and you are your business, and it won't grow until you do. And I remember thinking, okay, and so what I did at that time is I went home and I started a daily meditation practice, and I started reading a lot of books, but they weren't really business books. They were books. Personal development with a focus on self-awareness. That was right around the time I learned about the enneagram as well and really dug into that kind of stuff. And that was when my business hit a million in revenue for the first time, was when I really started growing personally and really spending time on that. That piece. And I have seen that have a tremendous effect on my life and also on the lives of the people I lead. Because the leadership team had access to an Enneagram coach for a while. They do have access to a business coach now. But all of those things, as you know, as a coach, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink. So these people who did this work, they sought it out. I approved it. Not everybody did it. Not everybody wanted to. But I've watched, like, my cook do so much work around her own self-awareness and her personality, and I see her apply it in her life and in her work, and I am just so impressed with that. And it's a wonderful thing to see. So sharing all of that, I'm kind of branching off of that lesson. But to see that happen with your team as well as with yourself, that whatever it is, whatever your leadership role is, the people that you lead, the situation that you're in, none of it can grow until you do. And that's nice because it means it all starts with you. If you're the problem, you're also the. The solution. So that made me feel kind of good about it that I could. Oh, okay. There's something I can do here, you know?

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Wendy: Right. And something I have control over because so many things in business we don't have control over.

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Christy: Absolutely. Absolutely.

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Wendy: But we can control ourselves in that way. I love that. Yes. And more CEO's, you know, need to know that. That it's their growth that's going to make the business grow. And if they're not growing. And. And I love that you. You read books that were not just business books. It was. Was really about personally. How do I do this?

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Christy: Absolutely. That was.

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Wendy: And how do I show up?

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Christy: Yes. How do I show up? And how do I learn more about myself and, you know, and then how do I extend that to others?

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Wendy: Yeah, how would I know if I was either on a call or I visited you. I don't know. If you have a facility that kindness, you're all virtual. Okay. So I come on a Zoom call with you, you know, how would I know that kindness is really important to you and to the organization? What would I, what would I hear, see, feel?

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Christy: I think one of the things that you would hear is working with if you were a client working with one of our people, is that we are not an organization that comes in and says, let me tell you something, you're doing everything wrong, that we would never do that, the way that we approach it and the way that I speak about it is that we do not know the sandbox in which you play, but we'll j p right in there with you and help you dig your way out and so it's very much a relational. Our mission is we build relationships one word at a time, and we take that very seriously. We do it with each other. We do it with the associates who are not employees, but our contractors who work with us, we do it with our clients, and we do it with our clients patient populations. So that is central to everything that we do and the feedback that we've gotten when we do surveys of our clients and things like that, the reason that they like working with us and they keep coming back time and time again, is because they enjoy the experience of working with us, because it is not transactional, it's relational. And they feel that when they work with us, so that you would, you would. I don't know how to articulate that in, like, a word, but you're not going to have somebody come and just, you know, be one of those consultants that tells you you're doing everything wrong, gives you a list of things to do, and then goes away. That's not the way we work at all. There's a different vibe going on here. And everybody who joins us, the employees who join us, they're like, is everybody really this kind, like, really like everybody that I've met? Because people meet one on one with every new employee. We have about 34, 35 people. So it's not impossible to do that. And they're always like, everybody has been so welcoming and so kind and answers my questions, and I can't believe how kind everybody is and, like, how great it feels to be in meetings with these people. So that's really the thing that I think you would notice and then in person. And that's really crazy. I was reading the book “Mind Magic.” That's by Dr. James R. Doty. Ah. Are you familiar with it?

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Wendy: Yeah.

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Christy: Ah, it's a great book for your listeners. He is a neuroscientist and also a neurosurgeon. And I highly recommend the book mind magic. It's amazing. It's all about how manifestation happens from the brain perspective, from a neurological perspective. And one of the things he talks about is that something that I've known for a long time, because we studied it with the enneagram, is that there are more, what do you call it - electromagnetic. There's a bigger electromagnetic field in your heart than in your brain. And because your heart is not protected by a skull, it is actually more accessible. And that we as humans, literally vibrate at the same level. So when you get with people who are like minded, that you get along with that, you enjoy being with that. Your heart rate variability happens, which is great, because you don't want your heart rate the same. That's you're in fight or flight mode. You want it to go up and down, your blood pressure drops, your breathing slows, and it happens collectively as a group. He calls it coherence. And we just did a retreat here in Cincinnati, I don't know, the beginning of August. And so we had everybody in the same room, plus some of our contractors, and it was literally, you could feel it. I'll bet if you would have put heart rate monitors on us, everybody would have been having the variability and our blood pressure would have dropped. It's just a really lovely vibe.

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Wendy: Right? Yeah, yeah. And when you can feel things and not just see them. Yes. It makes a very big difference.

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Christy: Yes, it does. And I'm so happy that I have figured out over the past however many years, how to access that feeling, because for so many years, living only in my head, I didn't have access to that, you know? And it's so powerful to have access to your feelings in your body, it enriches your life in immeasurable ways.

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Wendy: Yeah. And there's so many leaders out there that don't have access to their heart and their feelings, and they're running their businesses through their head, and they can.

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Christy: Be very successful, by the way. I mean, I think we could name a lot of not admirable leaders that are extremely successful, but maybe not the best people. Yeah, it's not necessary, unfortunately.

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Wendy: Right, right. Yes, yes. And tell us a little bit about your business, because I think it's very intriguing what you do, because it shows up of why kindness is important in kind of the business that you do.

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Christy: Yeah, well, we started out I started out as a freelance writer a long time ago. And then started building what was called writer girl originally about 20 years ago. And I started out saying to my accountant at the time, if I couldn't build a business based on kindness, I would go back to being a freelance writer so I really did have that intention, but what we started doing was just bringing teams of writers to hospitals. This is shortening it. It took a long time to get there, but we brought teams of writers to large hospital projects, like if they were redoing their entire website, now, in this day and age, there's not as many of those, but there have been a lot of mergers and acquisitions, so they have to redo all of that. We do things like physician bios, patient stories. Sometimes we even do things like locations and directions and things like that. We do a lot of strategy, looking at current websites and saying, what's working, what's not, what should you get rid of? What can you fix, what can you keep? All that kind of stuff and so that, in a nutshell, is what we do when we create content. It is not meant as a content creator, meaning social media. We do not really do that, we might do a plan for someone for social media, but we are not that kind of content creator. We do much more long form content interviewing physicians like a neurosurgeon, and then doing the alchemy of turning that information that he has in his brilliant brain, or she has in her brilliant brain into either fifth to 8th grade reading level content so that people can understand it and make the best healthcare decision for themselves and their family.

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Wendy: Yeah. Wow, that's great. And who are your ideal clients? We might as well put it out there if anybody's listening in healthcare. And this is like, oh, this sounds like something that we should have a conversation about, really.

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Christy: Any hospital system, there are hardly any small hospitals left but the hospital systems, that many of them are overwhelmed, they're asked to do more with less. As everybody in the world is their marketing departments are usually not staffed for the big initiatives, which makes sense. Why would you staff for a big initiative? But we come in and kind of extend their marketing department, which we don't really even like using the word marketing when it comes to healthcare, because, you know, it's more about education, because we are educating the patient population we are really expert at that. We are excellent at coming into your organization and working with your team, as I said, meeting them where they are, whatever issue they're facing in that particular sandbox. Sometimes they do what they call a lift and shift. They're redoing their website. They've just taken the current stuff and putting it over here just to get it done. And then we have to go in and audit it and change it and clean it up and, you know, run it through things to see if any of it has been plagiarized. Sometimes we've run across things with clients where they'll give us the initial content, and before we even start, we'll run it through that so that we can be like this is actually plagiarized content. We did not do that. But you've had plagiarized content sitting out there. So we're going to fix that and make sure that it's not plagiarized, so we do all of those kind of things. So really any large? Pretty much. Usually a larger hospital system. We also work with agencies, like advertising agencies that do not have the content support that is needed, but they have a client who does. We work a lot with agencies. We usually end up working directly with their client. It's more efficient for everyone if we do that, but they bring us in as a partner. So we have quite a few agencies that we work with in that manner as well.

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Wendy: Okay, well, that is good to know. And healthcare is such an important part of our world these days, and as we are all aging, you know, we need it more and more, and I'm glad that you are taking care of things from a position of kindness.

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Christy: Yes, that's what we keep trying to do.

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Wendy: Yes. And if people want to learn more about you or have a conversation about kindness, what's the best way to reach you?

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Christy: I am really almost too easy to find. You can google my name or just go to wgcontent.com and you can see about us, and you can go right there and find. All my contact information is right there. I am also on LinkedIn, and since my book is coming out in November, we're thinking I am starting to put posts up that are little snippets about our approach to creating an environment where people can thrive. Sharing some of the tools and the strategies that we use to make sure that we are creating an environment where everyone can thrive.

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Wendy: And what's the name of the book again?

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Christy: It's called your cultural balance sheet. Keys to creating an environment where people can thrive.

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Wendy: Great. Well, this has been a wonderful conversation, Christy. I really appreciate it. And putting all this good kind of juju out there in the world that there's kindness needs to be out there and vulnerability and leadership. Leaders need to be empathetic. There's so much. If we're going to thrive in this world that is constantly changing, we need all those things.

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Christy: I could not agree more. So thank you so much for having me, Wendy. I always enjoyed our conversations.

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Wendy: Yes, yes. And everybody, if you're, I'm going to have information about Christy and everything in the show notes, so please take a look at that and please go on to wherever you listen to your podcasts and give us a little rating. That would be great. And at new level work, we really want to help managers and leaders and anybody in a company thrive. So that's why we have AI and coaching, that we're really helping people to have a partner and have the best decisions. I always think of coaches as thought partners because we learn a lot when we say things out loud and then to have a partner that might be able to feed that back to us or maybe make a suggestion. And we have professional development programs that some managers, unless you have had a good manager, you don't know how to do certain things because you haven't had a role model. So we have classes like essential conversations, how to have a coaching conversation, how to give feedback, how to have a career development conversation. And once people have those skills and they've been able to practice it and they've done it in a cohort with other folks, it's a good thing, you know. So please go and check newlevelwork.com and see what you might learn. We also have an ROI study on there that is very interesting. So we'd love to have a conversation with you. No pressure, just fun. Call us up. So thank you very much. Thank you, Christy. Thank you all for listening and be kind to each other. Yes, I think Lester Holt says that when he gets off of news at night, be kind to each other. I think it's him, but I think that's a wonderful sentiment. So thank you all very much. Take care. Bye bye.

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Thank you for joining us today. For more information, show notes and any downloads from today's podcast, please visit newlevelwork.com. we would also be so appreciative if you'd write a review. Go on to newlevelwork.com review and you can write a review on your favorite podcast app. It makes a big difference because we want to really grow managers and leaders around the world, and we need your help. Thank you so much. Have a wonderful day.

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