Karen Benz: Navigating Change and Empowering Leaders with 1:1 Coaching (Encore) | Ep #114

Wendy (00:01):

Welcome to Building Better Managers. I am your host, WendyHanson, and I am delighted to have you with me today to learn from somewonderful guests who are going to share their information and their brillianceand their experiences around management and leadership and building great teamsin organizations. I am also the co-founder of New Level Work, so check us outnew level work.com. Thanks for tuning in.

Announcer (00:30):

Welcome to Building Better Managers. We're thrilled tobring you an encore presentation of one of our most impactful episodes. Thisconversation remains especially relevant today and we're excited to share itwith you. Again, whether it's your first time tuning in or you're revisitingthis standout episode, we're sure it will spark new insights to help you growas a leader. Let's get started.

Wendy (00:51):

Welcome everybody. I am so happy to have you on today, andit is a special treat today because we always talk to great managers andleaders out in the field to share their knowledge and wisdom, and we want to beable to give new information to people in HR and l and d, and I thought, wow,we have a lot of expertise at Better Manager and I think it would be nice to beable to use that expertise and be able to share some things that some peoplelistening in the audience may not be so aware of. So I am just delighted tobring on our vice president of Coaching, Karen Benz, so we can really talkabout what coaching is and what coaching isn't, because I think thatinformation will really help people. So let me tell you a little bit aboutKaren before I bring her on.

(01:42):

Karen Benz is an experienced executive coach with anextensive background in leadership and management. She holds a BS from BryantUniversity and an MS in management from Salve Regina University. Her experiencespans most industries including technology, finance, healthcare, defense,manufacturing, service, nonprofit, government, and education. As you see, shehas done it all. She holds a certification in DISC and has taught businesscourses at the university level for 10 years. She also has an experienced aschief operating officer of an ambulatory care facility located in Rhode Island.Karen is a certified graduate of Corporate Coach University. She is the vicepresident of coaching at Better Manager and she is based in Rhode Island. Thankyou, Karen, for joining us and taking the time today.

Karen (02:40):

Oh, Wendy, thank you. Thank you. It's my pleasure.

Wendy (02:44):

Well, I love that we have been partners since almost thebeginning of Better Manager for the last six years, and I ask everybody thisquestion of what gets you most excited about your work?

Karen (03:00):

I would say it's a great question, a great coachingquestion too, by the way. I think what excites me about my work is reallymaking a difference in the work that I do, seeing the impact that I have, notjust as vice president of coaching, but as an executive coach. Absolutely lovecoaching. And I also get excited when I see the impact that our coaches have onmanagers and leaders. We have a satisfaction rating of 9.6 that's remainedpretty constant over the last six years or so, and to me that indicates that wehaven't sacrificed quality for quantity even now that we have over a hundredcoaches. And also what's exciting is watching our business grow. As youmentioned, we've worked together for six years and we were very small and nowwe're moving on up. So that's exciting.

Wendy (04:01):

Yes, and I love your passion for executive coachingbecause that really has such an impact on our coaches because when they come toyou for coaching to say, here's a challenge that I'm having that field, you'renot up on the balcony staying there. You go down on the dance floor and coach,then you go back up to the balcony. So your knowledge is just so deep and yourexperience is amazing.

Karen (04:28):

Thank you. Thank you. I always say that executive coachingfeeds my soul. It's really what grounds me in this work.

Wendy (04:36):

Well, we are the beneficiary of it. So for many listeners,and I would hope most listeners are beginning to understand more about whatcoaching is, but they may not have had a coaching experience. And I think youcan hear about coaching, but the feedback that we get when we're working withpeople is that they're astounded. I never knew in two coaching sessions weasked for feedback after the second one that, oh my goodness, I've alreadylearned things that I can implement with my team. So could you tell a littlebit about what is the coaching experience to try to give them as much flavor aswe can and describe what coaching is and what coaching?

Karen (05:20):

Yeah, that's an important question. I would say the vastmajority of people coming into coaching really don't know what to expect, andthey are often delighted. But coaching really is the process of buildingindividual leadership and management skills through goal setting and focusedconversations. It's focused on the future. The coach often acts as a thoughtpartner to the client to help them process events, information and issues. Whatit isn't coaching is often confused with mentoring, therapy, training andconsulting. And I would describe mentoring for example, as when it's helping amanager or a leader navigate through an organization or an industry. Andtypically the mentor has experience in a particular area. Therapy, as you know,is focused on the past. And what's interesting is coaching can sometimes feellike therapy because the client hasn't experienced this type of closerelationship outside of therapy. Consulting, on the other hand is focused onsharing specific expertise in a particular area. And finally, training istypically focused on group learning, not individualized learning as coachingis.

Wendy (06:43):

Yes, and we do know, we've just found some great researchon when you add coaching to training, it's just amazing. You can do training byitself and it's just not going to be as effective if you add coaching on to getpeople to feel it in their bones, it's an amazing response.

Karen (07:02):

That's right. That's right.

Wendy (07:04):

Now, when we started at Better Manager, Karen, back in theday, we talked about we're working with a lot of senior people directors, andit's not traditional coaching that you can do because two different things whenpeople have been trained as a coach, and we thought there needs to be peoplethat have real business expertise. And so tell us about, we coined that termdirected coaching. What does directed coaching mean?

Karen (07:34):

So unlike traditional coaching, and I'll explain what Imean by traditional coaching, traditional coaching means you're asking powerfulquestions to elicit the answer from the client. The client has all the answersfrom within. That's really how we're trained as coaches directed coachingdeviates from that in that we as coaches bring our education, our experience,and our wisdom to the coaching engagement to really enhance the experience. Soif a client is struggling with a particular issue, we can help them brainstormor we can offer guidance when needed.

Wendy (08:17):

I think it makes such a difference. And in the feedbackthat we get, we ask for very frequent feedback, and we really always hear that,thank goodness that my coach shared their experience or the experience ofothers. And I think that's a real differentiator for us.

Karen (08:34):

And our coaches. An entry requirement to better managerfor coaches is that they have 10 or more years of business managementexperience as well as certified coaching experience. And so that businessexperience is what coaches lean into. When a client is confronted with abusiness problem, for example, we help them navigate that.

Wendy (09:00):

And that makes all the difference. We get that feedbackall the time, and many of our coaches have been CEOs of companies. They'vereally had some really important jobs so they can relate and I think the peoplethat they're coaching see their credibility right off the bat.

Karen (09:20):

And our coaches, what's interesting is our coaches don'tneed to have functional expertise, meaning they don't have to be accountants tocoach accountants or lawyers to coach lawyers. Instead, the business experiencethey have gives them enough business acumen so that they can pick up thelanguage in an industry, they can pick up on nuances within the business. Sothey're very astute when it comes to tackling business problems with clients.

Wendy (09:52):

That's such a great point because oftentimes we'll getasked by our partners customers if we have somebody that has expertise in acertain area. And really we're all about helping teams and people and managerswork better together.

Karen (10:08):

And so many people problems, they cross industries. It'svery, very common.

Wendy (10:14):

Yes. Now, one thing that we're also known for at BetterManager is our coach community. We have a lineup of coaches that want to joinus and it's, we've heard about your community. Tell us about the community.

Karen (10:28):

Yeah, the community is something that you and I are bothvery proud of because we've worked hard at this over these years and it's veryrobust. This is, again, something that I think differentiates us in the market.We found that when we interview coaches, the number one reason they want tocome to us is because of our community. They've heard about it from othercoaches. Our coaches refer coaches to us. So we know that the community isstrong and it's working. Let's face it, being a coach working on your own islonely and the community is very welcoming and supportive. And a few examplesof what we do to build community, we have bi-monthly coach community callswhere we update the coaches on the business, we share ideas and simply connect.We also have a monthly book club as well as dedicated Slack channels forcoaches. And finally, all of our coaches are assigned to pods. And these podshave about 20 coaches in them, and they're led by experienced better managercoaches. So whenever a coach has a question or runs up against a problem, theycan turn to their pod and their pod leader for help. It works very, very well.

Wendy (11:47):

All those components really help us to be able to makesure that everybody is on the same page. And I think that's something that youand I have really tried to make sure over the years, because when you have ahundred coaches speaking 15 different languages, and you want to make sure thatif two people that are getting coached by better manager are in the sameorganization, that they're having a similar experience in terms of the contentand the library so that people are not going off and doing their own thing. Ialways describe it as a bowling alley with bumper guards, bring all yourtalents, put 'em in the bowling alley, but don't go past the bumper guards.

Karen (12:29):

That's right. And it's not always easy to do, right?Because we're trained, we all have different training and we've providedcoaches with a structure to work within, so that's where the consistency anduniformity comes in. But really coaching is an art form. It's a way ofconnecting with people and helping them reach their goals. And so coaches willuse their own skills and talents and abilities within the coaching engagementthat is their own. And it's not something we're dictating.

Wendy (13:07):

That's so important. They need to be who they are, andit's just these parameters to make sure that we're all providing an experienceand based on feedback, we're doing okay at that.

Karen (13:19):

Okay. Well, and I think in part, it's who we pick. It'swho we see as being potentially great members of our coaching team, and we'vebeen able to isolate what that looks like and really search it out when we'reinterviewing coaches. And as you said, the numbers prove we're doing okay,we're doing more than okay.

Wendy (13:44):

Yeah, it is great. And the fact that when coaches come in,we make sure that there's that good cultural fit, which is really important.You can see it in the pods where they help each other and they work together.It's an amazing experience to watch them. I have a client that has this issue,does anybody have any resources? They really do work well, and that's part ofthe culture we want to create so that we are supporting each other.

Karen (14:11):

Absolutely. Absolutely.

Wendy (14:13):

So one of the exciting things is when managers orexecutives or new managers have ahas, we always talk about the ahas in coachingwhen the light starts glowing or something, oh my God, I finally realized whatthat is.

Karen (14:30):

And you can almost see the light bulb go off,

Wendy (14:33):

You watch them and then a lot of people will say, oh,that's a great question, and that you've gotten them onto something that theyjust have not experienced before, and that's kind of an aha in itself. That's agreat question. So share some of the examples of managers that you've coachedin their ahas. I think that will give our audience a good sense of what canhappen in a coaching engagement.

Karen (15:02):

Yeah, I love this question because it's really what trulyenergizes me about being an executive coach. I think for me, one of the mostpowerful ahas, and it's come up recently is when clients move from frustrationto compassion when they look at a relationship, not as frustrating, but theylook at it with compassion. And I'll give you an example. I had a clientrecently who was so frustrated with his direct report because the direct reportwas complaining about the same thing over and over again, and the manager wouldoffer suggestions and the client wasn't taking the suggestions. And so we talkabout how frustrating it was. And so I decided to take a different tact withhim and talked about the dynamic between the two of them. We also talked aboutthe direct reports communication style and the manager's communication style.And what I did was offer a different perspective by reframing the situation andsaid, what if your direct report was hearing your suggestions as criticismrather than as simply suggestions?

(16:16):

And all of a sudden the light bulb went off and he said,you nailed it. That's it. And then I followed it with a question of, if that'strue, how could you support them? It really shifted his mindset and I could seehim letting go of the frustration and really embracing the possibility that,wow, maybe it's not my bad ideas, it's how it's being received. So moments likethat are really special, very special. Another example was when I was coachingthe head of a 1000 person office, you can imagine the level of responsibilitythis person had, and he was brought in to straighten out a very chaoticsituation. He was feeling overwhelmed and he suffered from the impostersyndrome. When people think somebody's going to find out that I don't know whatI'm doing, by pointing out to him that the skills that got you here are notnecessarily the same skills that will get you there, it clicked for him.

(17:22):

And so we explored, so what else do you need to learn anddo in order to be successful that all of us have a certain set of skills, butwe have to continually grow and develop them. So he was incredibly relieved andwent on to be highly successful. And what was interesting is once he stabilizedthings in that office, he had to develop another set of skills to maintain itbecause he didn't have to be as hard and driving as he was during when he wastrying to make order. So those are some examples that come to mind.

Wendy (18:00):

Yeah. Oh, I love those. I think that comes up so often andon your first example about when managers are trying to work with their directreports and say, well do this, do this, try this. When you could open up aconversation with, can I make a suggestion of something else you might try,then you're actually opening up the person to listen. And I think that's aproblem that managers, they want to get on and download. And we know as all thethings we teach about doing one-on-ones is that it really is important for theindividual that's on the team and the manager to be getting their needs met andfor the manager to be saying, how can I support you? So it's a little differentfor people that have been a little bit more command and control in the past.

Karen (18:49):

Absolutely. And I think it's human nature to be somewhategocentric and think that it's about you and it's not always about you. It'soften about the other person and how they're receiving you. And so beingreflective and looking at that can be very helpful and very powerful becauseyou can learn a lot about yourself.

Wendy (19:16):

That's great. Another question that I have is, is there adifference between internal coaches in an organization and external coacheswhere a company partners with an outside organization such as Better manager tobe coaching people? And I know that each one has its good points. I'd love tohear your perspective on that.

Karen (19:38):

Well, what we've seen and experienced is thatorganizations that are striving for a coaching culture will often use bothinternal and external coaches. One of the advantages of hiring an externalcoach, like Better Manager, and we hear this directly from our clients, is thatthey appreciate having someone from the outside to talk to someone who isn'tmired in the politics of the organization or who might have a negative opinionof them. Trust and rapport can be built much more quickly when you're from theoutside. With internal coaching, I think it's a little more challenging tobuild that trust where the client feels psychologically safe and open enough toshare sensitive information. Some of the problems, when I think about theproblems clients bring to us, sometimes it's about lacking confidence or havinga difficult relationship at work. And that might be hard for them to talk aboutsomebody who's internal to the organization. And as external coaches, we havedifferent perspectives. You get the benefit of having so many different ways oflooking at issues when you're talking to an external coach.

Wendy (20:55):

Explain a little bit about perspectives. We use that a lotin coaching. It's like having a different perspective, which people don'talways realize.

Karen (21:03):

I think clients and well, our managers often get stuck inthinking a certain way about something. They have a belief about something andby introducing a different way of looking at something, you're offering adifferent perspective and getting them outside of their head because we all getstuck in our heads, in our own way of thinking about things, getting them to bereflective, to go up to the balcony, get off the dance floor, go up to thebalcony and look at the situation with us from the balcony, can often shift theway they think and the way they feel about a situation which can change thedirection of their management and leadership really.

Wendy (21:51):

Yeah.

Karen (21:51):

So it's a powerful coaching tool.

Wendy (21:54):

Yes, it is. And coaches talk about it a lot. So it's, it’sa good thing for people to remember and think, what's another perspective onthis that I could be taking? Because once you learn how to coach, you can alsocoach yourself, which is very valuable. What would my coach ask me today? Andwe always talk about the what questions, how powerful and open-ended and

Karen (22:15):

What and how, and avoiding the why.

Wendy (22:18):

Yes. Why did you do that, Karen?

Karen (22:22):

What do you mean? What do you mean makes me feeldefensive?

Wendy (22:27):

And I think that's just a normal thing for people to say,a manager, and they don't realize how it can knock somebody off their gamebecause it does sound like I'm about to criticize you. Why did you do that?

Karen (22:38):

That's right. That's right.

Wendy (22:40):

So Karen, how do you walk the talk with your team ofcoaches when they need support and assistance with feedback? How do you handlethat?

Karen (22:49):

Another great question. We're a company whose integrity,whose values include integrity and community. Community. And to use the wordsof Brene Brown, clear is kind and unclear is unkind. And I operate using thatprinciple and our values every day. Part of operating in integrity is beingopen and transparent about expectations. And if a coach, for example, receivesa low score from a client, I'll talk with them about it to get theirperspective. I'll also talk with the client and see how we can better meet theircoaching needs. But that's being transparent, that's serving both the clientand the coach in my role at all. I don't operate at all with any impunity. It'salways a growth opportunity for the coach. And we do this all in the spirit ofproviding the highest quality coaching we can.

Wendy (23:48):

And being able to get that feedback. Coaches are soappreciative.

Karen (23:53):

They are.

Wendy (23:53):

Because if you are on your own as a coach, you don'talways know what's working and you don't always get the feedback that we getand share back with the coaches so that they know how they're doing so they canhit the mark.

Karen (24:06):

And our clients will give comments on their feedback abouthow this coaching has changed them, how it's changed their management career,how it's impacted them personally. And it's just amazing. It's absolutelyamazing.

Wendy (24:24):

And the personal comes up a lot that I've learned, thingsthat really have helped me personally. And it's amazing in the number ofsessions that one can reach that kind of, we do many numbers of sessions, 6,10, 12, but you can really make a difference with someone if you're a reallygood coach and if you use the directed coaching model to give them some hintsof what they could be doing differently. So it is, I get a little tearysometimes when I read some of the feedback. Yes, yes. I can't say them out loudbecause it's like I am so proud that we have a company that really wants peopleto thrive at work. And whether it's an engineer in this company, no matter whatthe role is in sales, we are all in for helping people thrive at work. And ifyou're thriving also, if you take some things that you can also learn in yourlife, you're having better balance. And boy, it's been a hard time these lastfew years.

Karen (25:30):

Oh yeah. And it was interesting during the pandemic to seehow our business was impacted and how companies needed us more than everbecause they were trying to navigate the pandemic and hybrid working and all ofthat, and we were able to help them really process what was happening duringthat time. And it was challenging for many people and still is.

Wendy (25:56):

And I read a statistic that three out of five people aregoing to look for new jobs. So when you can add coaching and coaching makespeople feel valued that they're worth an investment. Yeah.

Karen (26:10):

It's not remedial. It's an investment in them and in theirdevelopment and their future.

Wendy (26:17):

We don't fix people in coaching. And that comes upsometimes the more that we tell people, raise your hand. Tell our HR leadersand L and D leaders when you want to get the first group of people in, ask themto raise their hand and then that experience will go, others will likewildfire. But if you pick people for coaching that are having a problem, peopleknow and they say, well, if John needed to have coaching, then this must beremedial. Or if I get asked, that's not going to be a good thing. So we have tochange that about coaching.

Karen (26:52):

And the other important point I think, is that in orderfor coaching to be successful, the client has to be motivated. They have to bemotivated to learn, to grow, to confront things about themselves that they maynot have done in the past. And so it's really a commitment on their part toparticipate in the process.

Wendy (27:17):

You can't just show up for each coaching session. There'sa lot of work you have to do in the middle, right? Yeah. Coaching is alwaysabout what are you taking away and what are you going to do over these next fewweeks and then check back in again so that we're seeing them change theirbehavior and they are seeing, wow, when I did this differently, this happened.

Karen (27:40):

Yeah, for sure.

Wendy (27:42):

Yeah. Well, thank you Karen, so much. I hope everybodyreally got to hear a little bit, really understand more about coaching and thedifference between coaching and therapy and mentoring is coming up a lot now,but that is not coaching. That's using your internal expertise and maybe in thesame company I'm going to mentor you or in the different fields. So there are alot of things that we don't want to confuse coaching with and we've just seenit's heartwarming to see what coaching can do and how it can help people leadbetter lives. Yeah.

Karen (28:16):

And thank you for having me.

Wendy (28:18):

Oh, pleasure. Yes. I'll talk to you at the next meeting.

Karen (28:22):

Alright, see you.

Wendy (28:23):

Thank you everybody for tuning in. Please write anythingon the website if you have feedback. We are all ears for you, so thank you.Have the most marvelous day. Thank you for joining us today. For moreinformation show notes and any downloads from today's podcast, please visit newlevel work.com. We would also be so appreciative if you'd write a review, go onto new level work.com/review and you can write a review on your favoritepodcast app. It makes a big difference because we want to really grow managersand leaders around the world and we need your help. Thank you so much. Have awonderful day.

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